ciphergoth: (Default)
[personal profile] ciphergoth
You are, I think, entitled to the right to hold and express any opinion without being shut down by the State for doing so; that is where the entitlement ends.

[Poll #1410915]
(edit: removed Harlan Ellison quote, which doesn't really express what I'm getting at here)

Date: 2009-06-04 02:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hughe.livejournal.com
I think everyone has a right to hold an express an opinion and, if that is what "I am entitled to my opinion" means, I wouldn't discourage them from saything that.

I also think that everyone should be able to back their opinions up with reasoning (preferably non-flawed reasoning) but even if they don't they are still entitled to their opinion, they just don't know why they hold that opinion.

I'd like to encourage people to explain their reasoning, but I also think that they don't have to.

It is everyone else that should be educated to not consider anyone elses opinion unless it can be backed up with reasoning.


Date: 2009-06-04 02:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com
As the second article linked above asks, if there is a right to hold and express an opinion, what duty does that right impose on others?

Date: 2009-06-04 02:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hughe.livejournal.com
by that definition... I think it is the duty of others to allow them to hold and express their opinion, however wrong you may think it may be.

i dont think it is the duty of other people to beleive it, or to not express their own conflicting opinion. I certainly don't think it is other people's duty or responsibility to change the opinions. It may be in their interest to, however.

But I suppose what they are getting at is: If I have an entitlement to the opinion, do I also have pretection over people trying to change it. If you have reasoning behind it then you can compare reasoning and it isn't an issue. Opinions can and should be fluid based on evidence, like scientific theory.

*shrug*

Date: 2009-06-04 03:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wildeabandon.livejournal.com
But what does "allow them to express it" mean? It's not as though any of us have the power to stop people expressing their opinions.

Date: 2009-06-04 03:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com
I'm still having trouble working out what you mean by "I am entitled to my opinion". By "allow", do you mean "not punch them"? If not just that, then what?

Date: 2009-06-04 03:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hughe.livejournal.com
and what do "others" mean? fellow citezens? the government? MI5?

It's more complicated than it sounds. Sounds like there is some balance between them not harrassing others and others not physically asaulting them :)

Date: 2009-06-04 03:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com
and what do "others" mean? fellow citezens? the government? MI5?

Another excellent question you need to answer in order to give the phrase meaning, yes. What duties does it impose, and on whom? Beware of simply chasing the meaninglessness from one phrase to another!

Date: 2009-06-04 03:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hughe.livejournal.com
but I think overall I think people have the right to be wrong. I don't think it puts any duty on anybody else. If they use their wrong and get burned (eg "in my opinion fire is cold") then it was their responsibility to research their opinions before putting them into practice. I don't think it is the goverment's responsibility to tell them fire is hot. Other people may want to, but I dont think it is a duty.

Date: 2009-06-04 03:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com
But the point of the second article is that it's meaningless to posit a "right" that imposes no duty on anyone.

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Paul Crowley

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