Ask an atheist

[ciphergoth]

In a discussion about religion in wildeabandon's journal, meihua writes: "this seems to have turned into me interrogating you. [...] Is there anything you'd like to challenge me on, instead?"

I think it's only fair enough to open up my own beliefs to the challenges of others, since I'm always keen to respond when theists invite me to give my perspective on some aspect of their beliefs as wildeabandon has in a series of recent posts. So, is there anything you'd like me to respond to?

Rules:

• You don't have to read this thread. This post is an invitation, not a challenge; if you don't like to read me talking about this then feel free to skip this.
• Be honest. Please don't advance arguments you don't personally buy, unless you're also an atheist and you want to discuss how best to counter it.
• If you come to change your mind about the validity of an argument, think about how you can generalise the lesson learned so as not to misassess similar arguments in future.
• Don't just match the politeness of what you reply to, but try to exceed it - see Postel's Law. Otherwise it is very easy to end up with a thread where each contributor thinks they are merely matching the snark level of the other, and yet the thread starts with the very slightest suggestion of rudeness and finishes with "please choke on a bucket of cocks".

Comments

[naath.livejournal.com]

I don't think I've met a greater number of atheists who would think that you being a theist is a great failing on you behalf that I have met Christians who would think that being the Wrong Sort Of Christian (let alone atheist or other theist) is a massive failing. I'm not sure how you could debate beliefs and religion with anyone who disagreed with you without their being some presumption that they thought you were in at least some way mistaken; of course you are entitled to be and to remain mistaken and to believe that I am the one who is mistaken.

I do think a lot of people are much more likely to notice that they are being attacked than to notice that they are attacking - for instance I feel in this subthread that you are attacking ciphergoth and at least the majority of the set of "all atheists" (of which I am a part) by making your points; however at the same time you do have a good point in that at least some atheist discourse is directed at deliberately taking the piss out of and/or being rude to/about Christians and other theists, so I can see why you are making this point. It's difficult to have a reasoned discussion about a matter without getting past the "you disagree with me therefore you are attacking me" mindset though, I do understand that, I have it myself a lot of the time and it's been the cause of many a foot-in-mouth incident on my behalf.

I suspect that this difference in ease-of-perception is part of why I would say "it's more likely that a Christian would be rude in that way" - what I perceive as this sort of attack coming from a Christian is probably a lot broader than what you would think of as an attack from your theistic perspective of my atheist beliefs.

[mskala.livejournal.com]

I don't think I've met a greater number of atheists who would think that you being a theist is a great failing on you behalf that I have met Christians who would think that being the Wrong Sort Of Christian (let alone atheist or other theist) is a massive failing.

Yes, many Christians do that too and I am as upset by it when it comes from Christians as when it comes from atheists.

[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

It seems to me that by the definition of respect that you're using you're not showing any respect towards my belief that sexist beliefs are a massive failing.