Atkins Diet is dangerous pseudo-science

[ciphergoth]

The Atkins Diet is a pile of dangerous pseudo-science. Not that this comes as a surprise, but here's the word from Dr Susan Jebb of the Medical Research Council's Human Nutrition Research Centre.

(Note: questions about TrustFlow here will be deleted, post them in trustmetrics.)

Update: Post made friends-only. Thanks to babysimon for pointing out that vampwillow had invited people in atkins_uk to join the thread, resulting in some incredibly lunatic contributions. Update: Public again.

Comments

[wechsler.livejournal.com]

I'll admit, I saw that in the Daily Tube and had one of those "Is that supposed to be news?" moments.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nicolai_/]

So how do people like, say, natives of the Arctic who live almost entirely on meat (at least traditionally), stay healthy?
Is it because they eat nearly all of an animal, rather than just the bits Europeans typically butcher and serve with 2 veg?
(I don't dispute that cutting out big parts of your usual diet is a bad idea; I'm just wondering how people who have no choice about the all-meat diet cope)

[babysimon]

To a lot of the population, yes.

[babysimon]

Incidentally, how old was Dr Atkins when he died of a heart attack? I've heard conflicting reports...

[wechsler.livejournal.com]

The tube is a very scary place...

[shadow-jess.livejournal.com]

72, i believe.

[juliet]

How healthy *do* they actually stay? In particular, what's the average life expectancy? I'd expect in that sort of situation, life expectancy would be pretty low (for a number of reasons), so things like cholesterol problems would be unlikely to show up.

I'd heard a different story

[barking-watcher.livejournal.com]

I was under the belief that he'd died in an accident and according to this< a href ="http://atkins.com/atkinslegacy/atkinslegacypress.html"> page that seems to be the case.

Of course it could all be a cover up.

Re: I'd heard a different story

[ciphergoth.livejournal.com]

Yes. He suffered a non-fatal heart attack last year, but slipped on an icy pavement and suffered a brain haemorrhage in early April.

Atkins claimed that the heart attack was due to infection and not related to diet.

However, it's pretty well established that high cholestrol diets like the Atkins diet lead to an early heart attack. ISTR a remark from one doctor along the lines of "it's like recommending someone take up smoking in order to lose weight".

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nicolai_/]

Well, yes. Point taken - typical life expectancy of natives of the high Arctic has never been -that- high.
So now I'd like to know: is the Atkins diet supposed to reduce your life expectancy below that typical of a hunter-gatherer in the northern Arctic, or just below that of our cosseted Western European existence?
You can still live OK in the medium term (years) on a diet of almost entirely fresh meat, but you can live OK for years on a lot of bad diets. Many sysadmins bear witness to this...

Re: I'd heard a different story

[barking-watcher.livejournal.com]

I agree entirely. The father of one of my work colleagues decided to put himself on the diet even though he's had a heart bypass operation.

Needless to say the minute his GP found out he was advised to stop.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

[vampwillow]

Well, where should I start. Let's see...

1. The 'Atkins' diet is not one diet but four, starting with a greatly restricted carbohydrate intake (20g per day) and then increasing slowly until you stay at a constant weight. By this point you can eat most foods if you balance the numbers.

2. Whether it is 'pseudo-science' is an interesting question. Atkins, in his books, quotes substantial amounts of research that show if followed through the stages it is very good for you.

3. There are vested interests in nearly all parts of the food industry, and research in this area is no exception.

Personally:
1. I started Atkins / lo-carb in May. I was well overweight and had a BMI of over 34. 'Healthy' is a BMI of 20-25. (Click here for the BBC's BMI Calculator).

2. For many years I have had high blood pressure and my family history suggests this will not lead to good things happening to me.

3. Since starting the lo-carb 'lifestyle':
(a) I have lost two stone
(b) my BMI is now below 30 (just)
(c) my BP has dropped by over 30 and stayed there
(d) I have had no migraines (I used to experience bad migraines every 3-4 weeks, during which I couldn't do anything for a day or two)
(e) I feel much more active and healthier and friends and my mother tell me I also look a lot healthier
(f) side-effect: I can get into smaller-sized clothes.

I started lo-carb not because of wanting to be thinner, but because I don't want to die from high blood pressure and related illness. Cholesterol also drops on this diet and, frankly, I'm annoyed at the medical establishment taking the producers' penny and not accepting that there are other ways to be healthy.

If lo-carb didn't work I wouldn't do it. It is more expensive (all that fresh veg especially - I have never eaten so much in the way of vegetables!) and I'll admit I do miss bread, rice and pasta. But it works.

[drreagan.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the do eat more of the animal than generally western europeans do. They also have evlolved/adapted a metabolism that is somewhat more suited to that particular way of life over the past 10 thousand years.

Re: I'd heard a different story

[vampwillow]

For the record, the Atkins diet was not originally created as a weight-loss program, but as a diet benfecial to heart patients (Atkins was a cardiologist). There are very many cases of GPs and MDs who have researched the issues *putting* patients on lo-carb diets in order to improve their life expectancy.

[vampwillow]

he died from an accident, not a heart-attack ...

Re: I'd heard a different story

[vampwillow]

pretty well established that high cholestrol diets like the Atkins diet lead to an early heart attack

source??

sfaiaa the issue is that it is only if there are high levels of carbohydrates AS WELL that this may be an issue. There are two basic types of cholestrol (effecticely one good one bad) and going through the four stages of Atkins generally reduces the bad and improves the good. Plenty of sources on file for that, including many postings of people reporting tests on themselves on the Atkins LJ communities.

Re: Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

[babysimon]

the medical establishment taking the producers' penny

Are you really saying medical opposition to the Atkins diet is commercially driven? That's quite an extreme position... [Instead, I predict food manufacturers starting lo-carb product ranges - see Michelob Ultra for an early example.]

If lo-carb didn't work I wouldn't do it. [...] I have never eaten so much in the way of vegetables!

Do you think these statements may be connected?

[bootpunk.livejournal.com]

Actually, putting your body into ketosis is pretty much hard & fast science. That part at least isn't in dispute. It may not be healthy, but you're going to start dropping weight.

I think the most dangerous thing about Atkins is that most people, led on by the "high quality" reporting of the mass media, have no real clue as to what it is all about. I suspect a great many people don't read to the end of the book. The diet certainly seems to work for some people, but then restricted calorie diets always lead to weight loss, and this one has the benefits of making people feel less hungry. I know I can handle being hungry all the time while dieting, but a lot of people - maybe most - can't.

I am badly in need of shedding a lot of weight, but hopefully I'll be hitting the pool amd doing some extremely hard training in order to do so. Its either that or the goth-plan diet, but I don't have easy access to the chemicals up here.

Its actually quite ironic to see ciphergoth commenting on diets, as he has one of the nicest figures around.

[vampwillow]

Atkins / lo-carb is not *neccessarily* calorie-restricted. Indeed, I suspect my calorie intake may have actually gone UP in the initial stages, but most days now I'm eating less. That may, of course, be due to the very hot weather making me need less energy and hence need to eat less.

Muscle, of course, weighs more than fat.

I agree with your last line too ;-)

[abbykatt.livejournal.com]

Hmm.. the diet seems to work fantastic for me.
I guess fat people will do anything to prevent other people loosing weight. :)

[(Anonymous)]

No surprise to me that this diet has a few *ahem!* problems. I suppose the fact it seems to work for celebrities has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact they also have personal trainers, dieticians on-hand, etc etc.
I spent three years working as a researcher for the MRC and for every piece of research that says 'go left' there's another that says 'go right'. I stopped believing in recent scientific developments a while ago, better to wait until something is reasonably conclusively established rather than jumping on bandwagons.
Incidentally, Dr Susan Jebb has just appeared on the ITV lunchtime news to reiterate the point of their research. I suppose we'll just have to wait to see how many celebs start dropping off with heart-attacks.

*Lostat*

Re: Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

[vampwillow]

sorry - last line should have read 'never eaten so much in the way of FRESH vegetables!' as I seem to eat a lettuce a day at the moment plus other fresh stuff, rather than the one a week and occasional fresh salad veg I did before.

Of course I'm saying there is commercially-driven opposition. It would be a rare industry that didn't do so and the food business is a few cartels at the distribution/ retail end and the intermediate processing stage is where substantial levels of sugar (and profit) are added in the the food chain.

In the USA there are a number of lo-carb foodstufs now being produced, and yes these are expensive and profitable for the manufacturers concerned who clearly have decided that if you can't beat them join them. In the UK so far there is little available in the Tesco, Sainsbury's or Safeway that is diectly targetted at lo-carbers

[babysimon]

I guess fat people will do anything to prevent other people loosing weight. :)

Paul, you've been rumbled. Learn to accept that you're a fat bastard.

[thegreenman.livejournal.com]

They have been genetically selected by their environment over thousands of years to tolerate a high protein/high fat diet (there was nothing else to eat).

Now that they have mostly ditched their hunter/gatherer lifestyle, switched to a more conventional north american lifetyle and diet and interbread with non local people they are seeing disease and mortality rates comparable to other Americans and Canadians.

Ummm....

[ruis.livejournal.com]

Can you tell me which of those articles actually gives a scientifically sound reason why the Atkins Diet is a pile of dangerous pseudo-science.

Reading the first few it appears that they are using the tried and tested technique of fighting pseudo-science with pseudo-science.