ciphergoth: (skycow)
[personal profile] ciphergoth
Johann Hari, The Independent, 2009-05-08

Dear God, stop brainwashing children

Why is worship forced on 99 per cent of children without their own consent or even asking what they think?
Let us now put our hands together and pray. O God, we gather here today to ask you to free our schoolchildren from being forced to go through this charade every day. As you know, O Lord, because You see all, British law requires every schoolchild to participate in "an act of collective worship" every 24 hours. Irrespective of what the child thinks or believes, they are shepherded into a hall, silenced, and forced to pray – or pretend to.

If they refuse to bow their heads to You, they are punished. This happened to me, because I protested that there is no evidence whatsoever that You exist, and plenty of proof that shows the texts describing You are filled with falsehoods. When I pointed this out, I was told to stop being "blasphemous" and threatened with detention. "Shut up and pray," a teacher told me on one occasion. Are you proud, O Lord?

[...] I am genuinely surprised that no moderate religious people have, to my knowledge, joined the campaign to stop this compelled prayer. What pleasure or pride can you possibly feel in knowing that children are compelled to worship your God? Why are you silent?

[...]
Are there prominent religious campaigners on this issue in particular or State secularism in general that he's not taking into account? Are they getting articles in the national press, or trying to? Pointers welcome!

Date: 2009-05-08 05:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com
It's a shame that opinion pieces in newspapers don't meet the referencing standards of Wikipedia articles, but really, it wasn't that hard to Google it.

I'm glad to hear that so many schools are in breach of this law with DfEE encouragement, but it doesn't mean the law shouldn't be fixed.

Date: 2009-05-08 05:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bohemiancoast.livejournal.com
It's a very long way from even the letter of the law to statements like

"If they refuse to bow their heads to You, they are punished."
"They are... forced to pray - or pretend to" -- they refering to 'every schoolchild'.

And the quote I included earlier. It's nonsense -- hyperbole setting up a straw man. And in practice, as surely even the hapless Hari must have known, DfEE guidance makes clear that 51% of assemblies should have a broadly Christian character, but that can include general topics that reflect Christian ethics, like being kind to people or picking up litter. And even that diluted requirement is largely not being met. Hari might as well have argued against the requirement for London cab drivers to keep a bale of hay for the horse.

I'm sure that Hari also knew that the vast majority of the 1% who are taken out of assemblies are taken out not by irreligious parents, but by hardline religious parents who want to ensure that their kids are only indoctrinated in one approved way. If he would stop to think he might also realise that this low-level exposure to the various religions of the world actually encourages the sceptical thinking he purports to espouse.

And one final advantage of 'broadly Christian nature' is that schools are still free to sing England's splendid religious music -- you don't realise what a benefit this is until you've been to a Christmas concert in an American primary school and been subjected to 90 minutes of Frosty the Snowman and his ilk.

Date: 2009-05-08 05:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] palmer1984.livejournal.com
Are you just critising Hari, or are you saying that you don't think the law about a daily act of worship should be changed? It's not entirely clear - you seem to go from critising Hari to saying that religious music is really good.

aside

Date: 2009-05-08 06:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seph-hazard.livejournal.com
saying that religious music is really good

Which it is. I mean, fuck belief and all that shit, it just is!

Re: aside

Date: 2009-05-08 06:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com
Well, some is. Some really isn't...

Date: 2009-05-08 09:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bohemiancoast.livejournal.com
I think that on the whole, the law is relatively harmless, and even more harmless as it's applied. If you were looking to repeal some bad laws, there are a whole load of others that you might start with before you got to this one.

Date: 2009-05-08 06:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com
Hari might as well have argued against the requirement for London cab drivers to keep a bale of hay for the horse.

Paging Alanis Morrisette: there has never been such a law.

Date: 2009-05-08 06:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seph-hazard.livejournal.com
Excellent way to intentionally miss the point and be incredibly infuriating all at once, darling :-p

In all seriousness, I'm pretty much with Alison on this one. The law is ridiculous, but hyperbole and furore aren't going to do anything more than piss people off.

Date: 2009-05-09 06:44 am (UTC)
djm4: (Default)
From: [personal profile] djm4
And one final advantage of 'broadly Christian nature' is that schools are still free to sing England's splendid religious music -- you don't realise what a benefit this is until you've been to a Christmas concert in an American primary school and been subjected to 90 minutes of Frosty the Snowman and his ilk.

Of course, for those of us who can't sing, this is its own special level of torture. I was probably never going to be religious, but my spiritual side was never in any danger of being engaged by being in a group of people uniting together in collective singing around me and giving me disapproving sideways glances if I tried to join in.

Date: 2009-05-09 01:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] emarkienna.livejournal.com
but that can include general topics that reflect Christian ethics, like being kind to people or picking up litter.

Just because some schools get away with not doing it doesn't mean they all do (see my first comment above about my experiences). For a school that has secularist teachers in it, it's at least good that they can avoid or get round the law, but if any Christian teacher wants to take an assembly and then preach in it, he has the law on his side.

As for being forced - well, I don't know what would have happened if I'd refused, but generally as a young child, I assumed if a teacher told me to do something, we had to do it. There is always a reasonable fear of punishment for disobeying. I wasn't even aware of the possibility of being exempted from assemblies, so didn't know to try challenging it on those grounds.

Date: 2009-05-10 09:58 pm (UTC)
henry_the_cow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] henry_the_cow
My son's primary school (in Scotland) seems to partake of the less traditional brand of morally improving songs. I think they're attempting to replace songs about "God is Great" with songs about respecting each other and the environment. Which on balance is probably a good thing, even if the songs themselves aren't things of beauty.

I'm not claiming this is standard practice across Scotland, btw. I only know about our local school.

Date: 2009-05-08 05:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] palmer1984.livejournal.com
Oh fuck. Thanks for linking to that (I find it difficult to research these things due to having dial-up).

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