Ask an atheist

[ciphergoth]

In a discussion about religion in wildeabandon's journal, meihua writes: "this seems to have turned into me interrogating you. [...] Is there anything you'd like to challenge me on, instead?"

I think it's only fair enough to open up my own beliefs to the challenges of others, since I'm always keen to respond when theists invite me to give my perspective on some aspect of their beliefs as wildeabandon has in a series of recent posts. So, is there anything you'd like me to respond to?

Rules:

• You don't have to read this thread. This post is an invitation, not a challenge; if you don't like to read me talking about this then feel free to skip this.
• Be honest. Please don't advance arguments you don't personally buy, unless you're also an atheist and you want to discuss how best to counter it.
• If you come to change your mind about the validity of an argument, think about how you can generalise the lesson learned so as not to misassess similar arguments in future.
• Don't just match the politeness of what you reply to, but try to exceed it - see Postel's Law. Otherwise it is very easy to end up with a thread where each contributor thinks they are merely matching the snark level of the other, and yet the thread starts with the very slightest suggestion of rudeness and finishes with "please choke on a bucket of cocks".

Comments

[ciphergoth.livejournal.com]

Yes, but the point is that religion makes claims about the world beyond that it makes people happy, and those claims don't stand up to scrutiny.

In so far as love makes those claims, I don't think it's actually a good idea to buy them. I don't think people should fool themselves into thinking that the person they are with is, say, somehow The One that they were fated to spend their life with. It's enough that you love them and that it works.

[some-fox.livejournal.com]

*grin* the claims that are made about love are not dissimilar I would say. I know that you don't buy into it here but the claim is certainly made that love will conquer all and the one will be all things to you and make you happy ever after.

In my work I see one hell of a lot of people who are unhappy because love hasn't worked out for them the way they wanted. I'd be willing to wager there are far fewer people who feel that way about religion (in fact there is an argument I've seen that love - as society currently understands it - has become a new religion, and it doesn't hold up nearly as well as the old ones did)

I am really enjoying these conversations btw :-)

[friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com]

in fact there is an argument I've seen that love - as society currently understands it - has become a new religion, and it doesn't hold up nearly as well as the old ones did

Read Boswell. Seriously. I know I'm like a stuck record on tis topic, but damn that man was good.

[some-fox.livejournal.com]

Boswell?

[duranorak.livejournal.com]

It's enough that you love them and that it works.

But presumably if someone's religion didn't make any claims about the world beyond that it made/might make them happy, it would still make your brain itch; what would be your position then? (I'm not sure I think religion/relationships is all that good an analogy, but since you've run with it here, I'm curious.)

E.
x

[some-fox.livejournal.com]

Oi it's an excellent analogy for my purposes here which is to suggest that ciphergoth also does something which is based on faith/belief rather than rationality or logic (not that I think those two are mutually exclusive);-)