Ask an atheist

[ciphergoth]

In a discussion about religion in wildeabandon's journal, meihua writes: "this seems to have turned into me interrogating you. [...] Is there anything you'd like to challenge me on, instead?"

I think it's only fair enough to open up my own beliefs to the challenges of others, since I'm always keen to respond when theists invite me to give my perspective on some aspect of their beliefs as wildeabandon has in a series of recent posts. So, is there anything you'd like me to respond to?

Rules:

• You don't have to read this thread. This post is an invitation, not a challenge; if you don't like to read me talking about this then feel free to skip this.
• Be honest. Please don't advance arguments you don't personally buy, unless you're also an atheist and you want to discuss how best to counter it.
• If you come to change your mind about the validity of an argument, think about how you can generalise the lesson learned so as not to misassess similar arguments in future.
• Don't just match the politeness of what you reply to, but try to exceed it - see Postel's Law. Otherwise it is very easy to end up with a thread where each contributor thinks they are merely matching the snark level of the other, and yet the thread starts with the very slightest suggestion of rudeness and finishes with "please choke on a bucket of cocks".

Comments

[palmer1984.livejournal.com]

I've been accused of being "disrespectful" when I've said that the concept of God was meaningless, and the story of Jesus's death and ressurection meaningless.

If by respect you mean "don't be nasty" fair enough. I don't go around calling believers idiots. But if you mean "don't challenge religious belief" then I won't show that kind of respect.

[mskala.livejournal.com]

I've been accused of being "disrespectful" when I've said that the concept of God was meaningless, and the story of Jesus's death and ressurection meaningless.

I think that really is disrespectful, but I just made and deleted a couple of attempts at explaining why without being insulting towards you, and I don't think I can do it, so let's drop that particular question.

Instead, I'd like to point out that even if you have on one occasion been called "disrespectful" unjustly, that has absolutely nothing to do with the point I want to make, which is that being respectful is in general both a meaningful concept and worthwhile, and that if you treated it as a first-class goal, then you would have more success in achieving your other goals. But that does mean treating respect as a first-class goal, not as a motion to go through to trick people into listening to you.

[palmer1984.livejournal.com]

I don't see how it could possibly be considered disrespectful. Am I not entitled to my point of view. Don't worry about being insulting (unless you call me an idiot :P). I don't mind robust debate.

Re: atheism and morality

[naath.livejournal.com]

I think that if saying that is disrespectful then saying "I'm an atheist" is disrespectful (after all it means "I don't believe in your God"!). And if saying "I think the Gospels are not true and have no meaning" is disrespectful if an atheist says it is it disrespectful for a Muslim to say "Jesus was just a prophet" or for a Jew to say that "Jesus was not the Messiah" (or many other examples of non-Christian believers saying that Christianity is basically Wrong)?

I think saying "any critism you make of my beliefs is Mean and Horrid and you Mustn't do it you horrible person" is disrespectful to the whole concept of debate and rational thought and analysis. I can see that criticism ought to be polite, well thought out and aimed at the argument not the person; yes (and of course everyone fails at that from time to time) - but that doesn't mean the questions should not be raised, nor answers made to questions (if I was asked "what do you think of Jesus' ressurection" the only honest answer is to tell them that I think it never happened).

[alextiefling.livejournal.com]

As a Christian, I'm not at all persuaded that it is disrespectful. It might (if Christian theology and/or historiography is valid) be untrue, but I don't think it's disrespectful.

God (if there is one) is big enough and old enough to look after itself without Christians (or whoever) saying that we mustn't disrespect or offend it.

[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

God (if there is one) is big enough and old enough to look after itself

Yes. This.