Come on with the rain, there's a smile on my face

[ciphergoth]

The scene with spikeylady went incredibly fabulously; see her friends-only entry for details. We really did excel ourselves just as I'd hoped. Thanks to co-conspirators ergotia, lilithmagna and kitty_goth - you all rocked very hard. I don't think I can do justice to just how fab spikeylady was or is here. After the scene finished, we chilled for a long time, then did some other different scenes, slept, there was more play, then purplerabbits came over ergotia and lilithmagna went off to meet lilithmagna's Mum in the National Gallery and the four of us that remained went off to Camden to meet lolliepopp and djm4 for fantastic burgerful lunch at Ruby in the Dust, followed by shopping. Shopping in the glorious sunshine with such fabulous people after such an extraordinary evening was... was just the way all Sundays should be. Myself and spikeylady bought matching Clockwork Orange T-shirts as a memento of the scene - how sad are we?

After shopping, we popped into the Dev for a swift half, then spikeylady and I dashed off to St Pervertia for a swift last burst of play (she might otherwise be sitting comfortably for the journey home, which would never do) before dashing off to Euston to see her onto her train. *sigh* the whole seeing-people-onto-trains thing is most delightfully romantic, but there's a big downside - they aren't there afterwards...

Then I returned to the Dev, where kitty_goth and purplerabbits were still, and met kjersti, lproven, duranorak, dennyd, and were later joined by trishpiglet and babysimon after fortifying ourselves with Chinese fast food. Other LJers spotted: vikinghugs, and I'm told arkady was there but sadly I didn't meet her (though thinking about it, I did talk to someone who might have been her but didn't ask about LJ names)

purplerabbits is here now updating her LJ, we're probably going to watch "Clerks" and sit about drinking rather than trying to do anything more complex. She flies home tomorrow, but lunch with ergotia first is on the cards.

I'm disturbed by the lack of internationalism on my friends page. I'd assumed that the sorts of people I might tend to meet would in general reject patriotism and nationalism as a close cousin of racism and other irrational forms of supporting one person you don't know over another, and support instead the idea that we were on the side of the whole of humanity, regardless of colour or nationality. It seems I was mistaken.

jwz gladdened my heart today by writing an LJ for no particular reason about one of the finest albums ever pressed into plastic and aluminium. I have come to you today to speak of Cop Shoot Cop's 1994 album "Release." This album is just such a boot to the head, that as your attorney, I must advise you to obtain and listen to it immediately. Those of you who like the journal, listen to the album. Those of you who like the album, check out the journal. If you're still not convinced, consider that in the club he owns, the cash machine is programmed with subversive messages. my favorite complaint was from the guy who was puzzled that the ATM says ``Destroy Capitalism'' but charges him a $3 service fee. Irony is hard, let's go shopping!

Comments

[lizw.livejournal.com]

Rationally we are all members of the same tribe ie that tribe which inhabits Planet Earth, and therefore our loyalty should be directed there, to evaluating actions and beliefs wrt
how they effect the tribeand indeed the planet rather than how will that effect my daughter/sister/church/nation/football team/other unit from which I derive a spurious concept of identity.

I don't consider it rational to say that people's primary allegiance should be to an entity which is so large and diverse. It isn't workable, and if it isn't workable, I consider that a pretty good indication that something has gone wrong with the reasoning.

I see allegiance as a network of obligation, beginning with those to whom I have made express commitments. Moving further out from the centre, there is a series of implied obligations that come from social and other connections. Somewhere on the edges are those who have no other connection with me beyond sharing a planet. By that point, it's almost meaningless to me to speak of obligation. I may well choose to help them if I'm in a position to do so after meeting my other obligations, but I don't consider myself obliged to do so. That is a workable, liveable system, and I consider it perfectly rational.

[pavlos.livejournal.com]

Well, then I'll just say that I have nothing in common with you! No offense, but if push came to shove I would ignore you and go and save the other Greeks. Nothing that you say or do can change this.

Well, no, actually this is not how I feel. But I am trying to point out the problem with choosing a side based on something like geography.

Pavlos

[lizw.livejournal.com]

No offense, but if push came to shove I would ignore you and go and save the other Greeks. Nothing that you say or do can change this.

Well, no, actually this is not how I feel.

Not something I would take offence at even if you did feel that way. But just to avoid falling into straw man territory later, let me just note that by the time I'm actually in a practical position to save someone's life, they're already going to have more in common with me than just being on the planet just by virtue of being in the same place at the same time, and I wouldn't decide who to save based on nationality. I don't know if I'd be capable of rational thought at all in such a situation, but if I were and didn't have specific commitments to one of the individuals involved, I hope I'd help the person who appeared to me to be in most need out of those I had the actual capacity to help.

I am trying to point out the problem with choosing a side based on something like geography.

Yes, and I agree with you up to a point, but then patriotism isn't really about geography to me, nor is it about the basis on which I make decisions like the above.