Magick for materialists

[ciphergoth]

(This is something purplerabbits and myself have thought for a long time, and I just got to writing up in an LJ comment. Copying it here with minor edits 'cos I'm interested to know what people think.)

I think I'm generally acknowledged to be a total screaming materialist and skeptic about magick, superstition, gods and so forth, and as such I'm not sure I see a reason why you shouldn't do a ritual to change the way you feel about something, if you think it might work.

It's not necessarily a step in the question of believing in all that - it's a willing suspension of disbelief, in order to do things to your head from a sideways angle that aren't always easy to do head-on. Our heads are full of irrational things, some of them undesirable, and you can't always make them stop doing their nasty work by saying "stop that, it's irrational!". You can use ritual and suspension of disbelief to turn them into something you can visualise, something tangible, and you can address them on their own territory.

The liberating thing about this, of course, is that you needn't invoke Innana, or Ganesh, if you don't want to - if it will work better, you can invoke John Lennon or Santa Claus.

When Alison and I decided to stop dithering and commit to running BiCon 2002, we did a ritual to mark the occasion - she found two blue smarties and two red ones, and we solemnly ate the red pills together...

Comments

Re: I doubt it

[djm4]

I am making the controversial point that religious people are in fact quite rational but intellectually dishonest.

You are making the 'controversial' assertion that religious people are in your experience/opinion/dreams quite rational but intellectually dishonest.

You appear to be psychic to the extent that you know how millions of people you've never met think. You're even prepared to tell people who claim to think a certain way that actually they don't. I wish I had your powers of vision, but unfortunately, I don't myself believe in psychics, so as a rationalist I regretfully have to regard you as deluded.

Re: I doubt it

[pavlos.livejournal.com]

All of what you say is true. I am making a controversial assertion based on personal opinion that isn't and couldn't possibly be founded. In terms of rational validity this is as good as any standpoint in religious debate, since each side basically inhabits its own solipsistic island. I could very well be deluded, i.e. it could be the case that most religious people are very honest and truly believe. Neither possiblity could be established by measurement, since the behaviour of "true believer" and "disonest escapist" are identical to the current limits of our senses.

The reason that I think there is any point talking about this is that I'm hoping to strike a chord in the minds of firstly you, the readers, whom I mostly expect to be atheist, and secondly anyone who might be religious in the way that I describe. In other words you might think "Aha, well said! I too have the same gut feeling as Pavlos. I will see if I can use this sort of theory in the future, either to convince someone or to help me interpret someone's actions". Or I may meet a slightly religious person who would be prepared to admit in private "Yeah, well, I don't believe it literally but I find it uplifting to try to believe it as much as possible".

My use of the word "dishonest" seems to be a bit abrasive. Well, there you go. The alternatives are "right", "different", or "deluded". I'm not sure that "deluded", which would be my personal interpretation of believing in god, is much more flattering. I can point to much self-serving behaviour that's contrary to the teachings of major religions to think that "dishonest" may have a place in describing their followers. Apologies to everyone who isn't.

Pavlos