Magick for materialists
Sep. 12th, 2002 08:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ciphergoth(This is something ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
purplerabbits and myself have thought for a long time, and I just got to writing up in an LJ comment. Copying it here with minor edits 'cos I'm interested to know what people think.)
I think I'm generally acknowledged to be a total screaming materialist and skeptic about magick, superstition, gods and so forth, and as such I'm not sure I see a reason why you shouldn't do a ritual to change the way you feel about something, if you think it might work.
It's not necessarily a step in the question of believing in all that - it's a willing suspension of disbelief, in order to do things to your head from a sideways angle that aren't always easy to do head-on. Our heads are full of irrational things, some of them undesirable, and you can't always make them stop doing their nasty work by saying "stop that, it's irrational!". You can use ritual and suspension of disbelief to turn them into something you can visualise, something tangible, and you can address them on their own territory.
The liberating thing about this, of course, is that you needn't invoke Innana, or Ganesh, if you don't want to - if it will work better, you can invoke John Lennon or Santa Claus.
When Alison and I decided to stop dithering and commit to running BiCon 2002, we did a ritual to mark the occasion - she found two blue smarties and two red ones, and we solemnly ate the red pills together...
purplerabbits and myself have thought for a long time, and I just got to writing up in an LJ comment. Copying it here with minor edits 'cos I'm interested to know what people think.)I think I'm generally acknowledged to be a total screaming materialist and skeptic about magick, superstition, gods and so forth, and as such I'm not sure I see a reason why you shouldn't do a ritual to change the way you feel about something, if you think it might work.
It's not necessarily a step in the question of believing in all that - it's a willing suspension of disbelief, in order to do things to your head from a sideways angle that aren't always easy to do head-on. Our heads are full of irrational things, some of them undesirable, and you can't always make them stop doing their nasty work by saying "stop that, it's irrational!". You can use ritual and suspension of disbelief to turn them into something you can visualise, something tangible, and you can address them on their own territory.
The liberating thing about this, of course, is that you needn't invoke Innana, or Ganesh, if you don't want to - if it will work better, you can invoke John Lennon or Santa Claus.
When Alison and I decided to stop dithering and commit to running BiCon 2002, we did a ritual to mark the occasion - she found two blue smarties and two red ones, and we solemnly ate the red pills together...
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no subject
Date: 2002-09-12 05:03 pm (UTC)Um, I know lots of very nice very rational people who could explain to us at length how calling yourself a pervert was the mark of a blitering idiot because everyone knows that perverts are nasty, evil, unethical and probably far too interested in childern and should be locked up. The problem is they know what a pervert is and are so fanatical about this belief that when you explain SM to them they normally smile, nod graciously and say - but that isn't being a pervert.
I'm sorry that I used a term that has the same triggering affect on yourself.
no subject
Date: 2002-09-12 06:12 pm (UTC)Could you imagine a way of reading such a thing as a good or helpful thing to say?
*sigh*
Date: 2002-09-13 02:43 am (UTC)LJ has eaten my wonderfully crafted response to you and mozilla hates me so here's a far shorter version. (I would be grateful if you'd humour me and accept the longer version was an insightful work of literary genius.)
Firstly neither Giolla or I have said that you are a satanist. I do not think it helpful to apply a label to someone who I know doesn't identify with that label. To use your example, I will say to people that they act like a pervert or sound like a pervert. It then becomes a topic that they can chose to discuss or ignore. Sometimes the person has a strong reaction against the phrase, in which case I aplogise and if they seem interested try to explain what I mean.
In this case my knowing that you do not currently identify as a satanist does not equate to my knowing that you have a negative view of the term.
If I consider that someone sounds like they could be a pervert from the things that they say then I do consider this a helpful thing to point out to them. (I sort of assume that most people who know me would be able to tell if I were likening their actions or views to something that I consider to be bad. This appears to be a flawed assumption.) It gives them the chance to re-evaluate whether this kinky stuff is for them or not. It can supply them with a chance to learn about wiitwd or at least come to an understanding as to why I think what they are saying sounds like something a pervert would say. If nothing else it can clarify their understanding of how I view the world and what I mean when I say certain things.
So for what was actually said, I don't have a problem with it. I can see how you jumped to the conclusion that you did and why this caused offence. I do not see this being the same as Giolla intending to cause offence. (Do I really need to point out that I am only speaking for myself - I obviously feel that I do.) Going back to the point you originally made, the only existing 'magickal' practitioners that I could see your views being likened to are Levy or various memebers of the Golden Dawn / OTO. If they weren't the examples of materialistic magicians used I am still curious as to whom you have been likened to.