Date: 2004-07-29 07:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deliberateblank.livejournal.com
“if Bin Laden suddenly shows up as scheduled, this should be understood, in advance, as prima facie evidence George W. Bush has spent years -- years! -- not doing all in his power to bring the greatest mass murderer in our history to justice.”

I think that's a little excessive though.

Date: 2004-07-30 12:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] valkyriekaren.livejournal.com
the greatest mass murderer in our history to justice

What, the Holocaust isn't in history, let alone living memory, anymore? I'm sure there are plenty people who would beg to differ. Or do gypsies, Jews, Slavs and queers not count?

Date: 2004-07-30 12:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com
I think he means American history.

Date: 2004-07-30 02:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pavlos.livejournal.com
A colleague of mine predicted this back in January. He said something like "yeah, I'm sure Bush has Mr. Bin Laden locked up somewhere and ready to present at his triumph".

I do think he acts like Julius Ceasar.

Date: 2004-07-30 02:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] countess-sophia.livejournal.com
People have been expecting the beginning of stuff like this for a while: we are after all dealing with the people who perpetrated the 'October Surprise'.

They are prepared to do absolutely anything to retain power.

Date: 2004-07-30 02:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simm42.livejournal.com
So the pilots, crew, superiors and the president at the time the A bombs were dropped in WW2 (on civilian targets) dont count then?


Hmmmm selective memories these politicians

Date: 2004-07-30 02:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simm42.livejournal.com
It probably doesn't matter.

The votes in the US for the president dont count. They just go to the electoral college who then cast the votes on behalf of the state they represent. But there is nothing that says they have to listen to what the people said.

Most Americans I asked about this just said "well they are not going to go against it are they?" normally with a rather gormless look.

Some few could actually see the obvious - with the bribes flowing around, those votes are always for sale.

However I think this insanity only applies to the presidents positions and that house and senate places are done more sensibly.

Maybe the above explains why bush seems so unconcered about the whole getting re-eleceted issue.

Actually when he got in (I was in the US during their last election, and for september 11) I said to several people that it would not suprise me if he tried to stay in a 3rd term. I still would not be surpised if he did so, citing some form of national emergency to justify it.

Date: 2004-07-30 04:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xquiq.livejournal.com
I'm getting to the stage where I'm having real difficulty ascertaining which parts of the so-called 'war on terror' are real, which are set-up and which are pure fabrication. Certainly some of the timing in the past has been 'convenient' to say the least, such as the time they claimed to have found weapons grade plutonium 'en route to Iraq'.

I can't say I'm that surprised byt the links you posted, but I do worry about it. I also worry about what they're going to do next.

I still cannot see a single good reason for going to war with Iraq at that time. If it was to free the people, they should have done a better job because right now it doesn't look like the country will be stable at any point soon and the only people turning a profit will be predominantly American-based multi-nationals.

I also find it most telling, if unsurprising, that very little has been said about Afghanistan. One wonders what the current situation is there, as it certainly doesn't seem to be getting much news coverage.

Julius Ceasar

Date: 2004-07-30 05:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xquiq.livejournal.com
He certainly seems to think he has no-one to answer to. Sadly the same seems to be true of a large number of his supporters.

The very people who would justly decry British Imperialism appear to be trying to create a type of Imperialism of their very own - albeit one completely devoid of responsibility to the countries they expect to either follow them or stand by and watch.

Date: 2004-07-30 05:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com
The Independent sometimes gives Afghanistan coverage. Coincidentally, they had a front-page story on it the other day:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=545775

Date: 2004-07-30 05:29 am (UTC)
ext_52479: (Default)
From: [identity profile] nickys.livejournal.com
Everytime I think it isn't possible that they could get any more cynical and manipulative, I am depressed to discover that they have... :-(

Date: 2004-07-30 05:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xquiq.livejournal.com
Ah, thanks for the link.

I was hoping to be pleasantly surprised, but it's pretty much the type of story I expected. I don't believe that they were ever that interested in Afghanistan in the first place, tbh.

More generally, I'm still amazed at the actions which have occurred in the name of the 'war on terror' in the last few years. I sincerely hope neither Bush nor Blair retain office. Sadly, I suspect that they probably will :/

Date: 2004-07-30 06:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sibelian.livejournal.com
Oh, I'd be surprised if he DIDN'T try to stay in for a third term. I'm sure he will.

Date: 2004-07-30 06:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sibelian.livejournal.com
Well...

Um.

I think it's worth thinking about the term "conspiracy theory" and then at look at ACTUAL World History and see how much of it really does depend on conspiracies taking place and then look at the reaction of the current western media complex to anyone suggesting that anyone in THE MOST POWERFUL POLITICAL POSITION ON THE PLANET would act dishonorably and/or deceitfully and watch them sneer: "mmmmmuuuuurrr, COnsPEERacy THEEEREEE" like it's a dirty word. As if Kings, Prime Ministers, Presidents and the like have never lied.

Really, it's kind of weird.

Date: 2004-07-30 06:24 am (UTC)
ext_52479: (tea)
From: [identity profile] nickys.livejournal.com
> As if Kings, Prime Ministers, Presidents and the like have never lied.

One thing that does bug me a lot is how often serious lies are exposed, but the liars suffer no penalty for them.

I suppose that's always been the case, it's just more obvious these days with much more sources of information floating around.

Date: 2004-07-30 06:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simm42.livejournal.com
Just to put that in contxt - its against the constituation for a US president to stay in for 3 terms - 2 is their limit (atleast I think its the constitution - its one of thoe things the americans feel is important anyway)

Date: 2004-07-30 06:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com
I think the Bad Guys put about all those mad ideas about JFK and the Illuminati in order to discredit any idea that powerful people might conspire to do wrong :-)

I'm quite proud of the fact that I got the sci.skeptic FAQ changed. It used to list Conspiracy Theories as something to treat with the same skepticism as, say, homeopathy. It now draws a distinction between Grand Conspiracies and the other sort, and notes that the other sort really happens, eg Watergate.

Date: 2004-07-30 06:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com
Fahrenheit 9/11 argues that they only went into Afghanistan because they would have looked quite ridiculous going straight for Iraq...

Foem Jon Snow at Channel Four News...

Date: 2004-07-30 10:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] princealbert.livejournal.com
"Suspiciously timed Al-Qaeda arrest?
==================================
A senior Al-Qaeda operative has been arrested in Pakistan. But Khalfan Ghailani has been living openly there for months. So why has he only now been taken into custody? And why has his arrest been announced just as Democratic presidential challenger John Kerry stands up to make his big convention speech? Funnily enough one American magazine predicted last month that we would see some major Al-Qaeda arrests timed to co-incide with the Democratic convention. Were they right? "

Date: 2004-07-30 10:43 am (UTC)
lovingboth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lovingboth
Never mind Truman - everyone who could drop bombs on enemy civilian targets in WWII did so - what about Nixon and Kissinger ordering the secret bombing of neutral Laos and Cambodia?

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