Footage wasn't from 1991

[ciphergoth]

The wonderful Snopes is on top of it. The footage of celebrating Palestinians was shot on Tuesday, 11 September 2001 in East Jerusalem by a Reuters TV crew.

http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/outrage/cnn.htm

They've got a whole page of war-related rumours:

http://www.snopes2.com/info/rumors.htm

probably worth checking out next time you hear a good one (eg Nostradamus). Most implausible so far: 4000 Israelis working in the WTC get a tip-off not to turn up to work on Tuesday, and not one of them breaks the vow of silence, not even, say, to warn a colleague...

http://www.thisiscyberia.com/NewsCenter/article.asp?ID=196628

Comments

[jdcatron.livejournal.com]

Making it the work of both the Isralies and the Palestinians.

Wow. You know, if that were true I'd actually take it as a really good sign for peace in the middle east. :)

(yeah, gallows humour. sorry)

JD (who unfortunetly knows exactly how likely the average american is to know why the concept of isrealies and palestinians working together to take out the U.S. is..not very. *sigh*)

Re: reading

[(Anonymous)]

Uh, you think the US isn't involved in the Israel vs. Palestine war?

Re: reading

[ciphergoth.livejournal.com]

I think if you're going to seriously push the 100% nutzoid belief that Israel has the power to persuade dozens of Islamic people to fly to certain death in order to help them get the US even further on their side...

...you should at least be able to spell it.

Re: reading

[jhg.livejournal.com]

'Isreal'? Isn't he one of the villains in the X-Men?


J

Re: reading

[ciphergoth.livejournal.com]

If it was Grant Morrison, he'd have an arch-enemy "Isfictional"...

I'm *still* in serous doubt about the footage.

[hbergeronx.livejournal.com]

The veracity of the footage is argued both for its date of origin (the 11th of September) and the fact that Bin Laden is mentioned. At nine am in NYC, which was the first most news crews were on-scene, Jerusalem is exactly seven hours later than this, therefore, four pm (0900 + 7h = 1600). Sunset is at 6:50 pm (1850). The footage shows celebrations in full daylight. It had to be shot on the 11th, since they showed the video footage on tuesday afternoon in the United States, and dawn on the 12th is at 6:21 am (0621 - 7h = 2321 NYC, late night). The towers collapsed at about 1030 am, (1030 + 7h = 1730). There is one hour and 20 minutes between the second collapse and sunset in Jerusalem. There is two hours and fifty minutes between first reporters on scene in NYC and sunset in Jerusalem. See
here (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=110&obj=sun&month=9&year=2001&day=1) for those times.
I would argue that there was *not enough time* for an accurate enough story, implicating Bin Laden in anything, for the footage to have been shot without the news crew having prompted them to celebrate and/or demonstrate. And, since we did not know who caused this, how could they have known to cheer for Bin Laden?
I don't want to sound like a conspiracy kook, but the story just doesn't make sense. Further, I *remember* that footage from somewhere- that other people had the same impression (as yet unsubstantiated) only reinforces my sense of paranoia. I want to know how the Palestinians could have know to celebrate less than three hours after the first event happened considering the supposed dearth of reliable information available there. Is their information that good- do they really give a flying crap about the US that much to be glued to their TV's waiting for news of our demise or suffering? And how could CNN get a camera on that site so quickly? was it a lucky journalistic coincidence?

Occam's razor would suggest

[hbergeronx.livejournal.com]

the footage of the event was scripted. It's a simple explanation and would fit the timeline without relying on luck or coincidence.

Re: I'm *still* in serous doubt about the footage.

[purplerabbits.livejournal.com]

*Sigh* You know the Jerusalem isn't a third world country. They have TVs there, too - I even hear rumours that they have the Internet... And unlike many Americans the people there have a good enough grasp of the situation and enough information to guess who might be responsible. People were mentioning Bin Laden in my office in Edinburgh fifteen minutes after the news first hit. Do you want to construct a conspiracy theory about that, too?

I'm not stupid

[hbergeronx.livejournal.com]

I do happen to know that they have television and internet. We know people in Israel. I've worked with and even invested money in business there. I have legitimate doubts because although they may have been discussing Bin Laden in Edinburgh, we were speculating here in *NY* that it might be home-grown terrorists or reprisal from Saddam Hussein for the routine bombing the USA/(UN) forces do there periodically until at least one in the afternoon, NY, and no mention of Bin Laden. (I went home at that point). Patronising me is less than helpful. I want to know how the Palestinians had any certainty it was Bin Laden in such a quick time frame, as Snopes suggests. There are tremendous unanswered questions, and rather than honest questions and thought, I get the same old same old tripe from the left, and the same old same old warmongering from the right. Everyone's taking the piss at rumors and Nostradamus, and I couldn't care less- I want to talk about real options and what I need to make decisions regarding how I vote and act as an American. There are difficult questions at hand and I don't have all the answers and, in fact, I don't have all the questions!
So instead of treating me like an ignorant fuckwit, maybe you can attack my theory with facts to help me resolve honest, troubling questions. The snopes article merely disclaims it on the *word* of the crew that allegedly filmed it- not constituitive proof, IMO. I don't have access to a film library, I don't know anyone who can help me research nor do I know good keywords for even a decent Google search on the subject. I spent quite a few hours looking for stuff written by Osama Bin Laden (as Tamim Ansary suggests) and found *nothing*. At least I've read *mein kampf*- if Bin Laden is hitler, I'd like to read things written by him to try to hear his voice, undserestand his words.
At minimum, if you don't have data, you could at least have some modicum of compassion for me as I try to suffer through a deluge of conflicting information.

And another Duh!

[purplerabbits.livejournal.com]

My favourite is the Nostrodamus one. I'm so glad to see that one knocked on the head.

"Nostradamus did not write the quatrain now being attributed to him. ... It originated with a student at Brock University in Canada in the 1990s, appearing on a web page essay on Nostradamus. That particular quatrain was offered by the page's author, Neil Marshall, as a fabricated example to illustrate how easily an important-sounding prophecy can be crafted through the use of abstract imagery." (Italics mine)

Wow! It just goes to show - never make stuff up in an attempt to demonstrate how gullible people are - it will always come back to haunt you...

CNN

[countess-sophia.livejournal.com]

I think the reason for much of the furore around this is down to a basic misunderstanding by many people of how the media works. Sloppy use of library stock is entirely possible, conspiracy most unlikely. I could entirely believe that CNN dropped in some old footage to illustrate an event, I find it less easy to believe that they would make something up.

In this case the allegation seems to be not proven, but it is a not completely uncommon phenomenon in news production that people would do well to be aware of. In the light of this I felt that the Snopes article was rather overwritten, to say the least.

hear hear!

[hbergeronx.livejournal.com]

and to indict the original writer for slander seems *way* out of line, on Snopes' part. Particularly when his original words were that it was an impression of a colleague and they were attempting to follow up, not a *fact*, and he retracted later reinforcing that.