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Paul Crowley ([personal profile] ciphergoth) wrote2001-09-13 08:52 pm
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Dubya counterpunch

http://www.counterpunch.org/
"Freedom," said George Bush in Sarasota in the first sentence of his first reaction, "was attacked this morning by a faceless coward." That properly represents the stupidity and blindness of almost all of the mainstream political commentary.
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Cheering Palestinians - filmed in 1991?!

[identity profile] mrph.livejournal.com 2001-09-13 03:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I'll be very inteested to see if anyone substantiates this claim. I can quite believe it, but I'd like to see some more evidence...

If it is true, it's one of the most shameful and damaging things I've heard in quite some time...

Re: Cheering Palestinians - filmed in 1991?!

[identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com 2001-09-13 04:15 pm (UTC)(link)
That would be really something. Is that claimed in the article I linked (I can't find that claim) or elsewhere?

cheers!

Re: Cheering Palestinians - filmed in 1991?!

[identity profile] hbergeronx.livejournal.com 2001-09-13 07:44 pm (UTC)(link)
I can confirm it from my own memory- I have nearly perfect visual memory, and I distinctly remember the clip. The woman's face is almost certainly one who was cheering at some other incident.

Re: Cheering Palestinians - filmed in 1991?!

[identity profile] mrph.livejournal.com 2001-09-14 12:29 am (UTC)(link)
It's in the linked article - third or fourth subheading, headed "Least credible news footage". Text reads:

"CNN's videotape of Palestinians supposedly dancing in the streets of a West Bank town. CounterPuncher Marcio A.V. Carvalho at the state university of Campinas in Brazil tells us that he and his colleagues had compared this tape with one from 1991 showing Palestinian cheering, and found them to be identical"

Re: Cheering Palestinians - filmed in 1991?!

[identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com 2001-09-14 01:35 am (UTC)(link)
Ah, bollocks, I was trying to link to this article, which they moved already. And they don't give a permanent URL for the old article, so I can't refer anyone to it because it'll move.

http://www.counterpunch.org/bombsense.html

Re: Cheering Palestinians - filmed in 1991?!

[identity profile] jhg.livejournal.com 2001-09-14 02:37 am (UTC)(link)
My god, if that's true then my opinion of journalists and journalism as a 'profession' has sunk even further that it was before.

That's like one of Damien Day's OBs from Drop The Dead Donkey!


J

Re: Cheering Palestinians - filmed in 1991?!

[identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com 2001-09-14 03:24 am (UTC)(link)
I've mailed CounterPunch asking for substantiation.

cheers,

Re: Cheering Palestinians - filmed in 1991?!

[identity profile] mrph.livejournal.com 2001-09-14 04:50 am (UTC)(link)
...and I've dropped a line to the relevant BBC feedback e-mail address, asking if they've heard these claims, and if they've got any proof either way.

Wonder if I'll get a reply.

Re: Cheering Palestinians - filmed in 1991?!

[identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com 2001-09-14 05:04 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, er, I did that too...

We have a denial...

[identity profile] mrph.livejournal.com 2001-09-17 04:43 pm (UTC)(link)
"CNN says that footage was forwarded to it by the Associated Press and Reuters, and it was dated Sept. 11, 2001. The network assumes that's correct. Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, who condemned the terrorist attack, reportedly attributed any celebrations to a small band of children."

From here. Interesting wording, though. "The network assumes that's correct" - sounds like they're hedging their bets a little...?

Re: Cheering Palestinians - filmed in 1991?!

[identity profile] countess-sophia.livejournal.com 2001-09-14 03:37 am (UTC)(link)


Excuse me. Some of do have morals and professional ethics, thankyou.

Soph, who has been a journalist for 10 years.

Re: Cheering Palestinians - filmed in 1991?!

[identity profile] jhg.livejournal.com 2001-09-14 03:44 am (UTC)(link)
Oops - I seem to be guilty of the sort of thing I've been silently berating others for...


J

Re: Cheering Palestinians - filmed in 1991?!

[identity profile] countess-sophia.livejournal.com 2001-09-14 03:23 am (UTC)(link)
On the other hand, this kind of thing happens all the time, both in the print and electronic media - people use library images to illustrate when they don't really have a picture of the thing. It's a dirty little secret that no one mentions, but usually no one notices. Another recent case of this are the anti-capitalism protests, where the same footage was used to represent several different events.

In this case, I've heard it from several different sources, including a couple of usually reliable ones in the business, but I have been unable to stand the story up. It does look bad though, and it would be good if people were more aware of it.

[identity profile] ex-meta.livejournal.com 2001-09-14 07:34 am (UTC)(link)

The party footage may be fake, but the celebrations are real (http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/09/13/News/News.34751.html), it seems.

[identity profile] mrph.livejournal.com 2001-09-14 08:04 am (UTC)(link)
To some degree, almost certainly. But the Jerusalem Post is hardly an unbiased observer, is it?

[identity profile] ex-meta.livejournal.com 2001-09-14 10:07 am (UTC)(link)
I don't think I've ever encountered an unbiased observer.
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