ciphergoth | Buying a laptop

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Buying a laptop

A few months ago I poured coffee into my beloved Thinkpad, and the screen died. It turns out that no-one can get hold of replacement screens for a ThinkPad X30, which is a bit sad. I've been using Jess's laptop in the meantime, but she's getting a bit sick of it, and anyway I need one to take to Belgium. I don't like to buy big expensive things without gathering the wisdom of the lazyweb!

I have only one really strong requirement: it has to be light. Around 1.5kg is good, lighter is better, anything above 2kg is right out. In particular, please don't advocate any Apple laptop that weighs above 2kg, which I think is all of them.

The next most important thing is battery life. Everything else is just the usual tradeoff of features and suchlike. All light laptops have 1024x768 screens, except the Dell/Samsung WXGA ones that have 1280x768. All laptops you can buy new come with Bluetooth, WiFi, built-in Ethernet, and so on. 512Mb RAM will be plenty for most of the things I want to do. It doesn't seem to be possible to determine for sure which ones support WPA2, sadly; I'm just hoping that means they all do. Similarly, it seems to be very hard to find out how good they will be with Linux, but they're all usually OK. I'm assuming the warnings against Vaios from a couple of years ago stand (I've done this before).

Any recommendations? A whole bunch of options are listed here. So far these seem to be the main contenders:

Model	Price	Mass	Battery life	Notes
Dell Latitude X1	£1042	1.15kg	3h06	1280x768 screen. I am typing at one right now!
Toshiba Portege M300	£1012	1.6kg	6h10
Toshiba Portege R200	£1262	1.3kg	4h40	updated to add this one - seriously seductive shiny and current favourite

I welcome your thoughts! But please let me re-iterate: DON'T TELL ME TO BUY A MAC!. I know it's an inevitable consequence of pretty much any computer-related question, but I did specifically ask for a reason.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

My experience is that Toshiba build quality and design is right up there with Apple and IBM. Dell's design values usually resemble those of a brick.

Can't speak for the Portege M300, but the older P2000 I've got cluttering up my flat is a tiny wee thing (barely a centimetre thick), definitely fits your weight range, and the battery life is indeed up there around 5-6 hours in real use (with WiFi). I believe it's a predecessor to the M300 -- a little bit slower (P3-750 -- it's a couple of years old) but even thinner. You might want to keep an eye open for a second-hand one? (Ran Linux when I could be bothered.)

Give me a shout, my brother works for them and can get a discount.

I bought the Portege M300 a few weeks ago and I'm very happy with it. Battery life is as good as advertised! Ubuntu linux installed without a hitch - the only hardware it can't drive is the bluetooth which is apparently a kernel, not Ubuntu, issue.

Don't pay £1012 for one, you can get one from Misco with 768MB memory for £770 including VAT and delivery! Despite being supposedly 3-day delivery at that price, they caught me out by attempting to deliver it the next day.

The best thing about the Porteges, IMO, is that they have excellent keyboards for the size. The M300 keyboard isn't quite as good as my previous (Portege 2010) but is still better than most laptops I've used. Also, my SO has a Dell laptop (not Latitude series) and the fan is horribly noisy, whereas my M300 is totally silent, virtually all the time. I think I did hear the fan once when I was compiling something, but it's normally silent.

Misco link

If apple isn't an option because of weight (I personally don't notice the weight and the 12" powerbook is my special friend who goes everywhere with me) then i'd throw in a vote for toshiba. They're pretty damn robust. I also admin a couple of new vaios at work (oldest being about a year old) and we've had zero problems with them.

I would very highly recommend their laptops - I use them myself (and administer the better part of 60 of them at least!)

We use a large range of them, one to note (although 200g's heavier than your spec) is the Tecra A5... And also depends whether you like or dislike widescreen.

I'd say you can't go wrong with either Toshiba or Dell, I just prefer Toshiba as they have a better keyboard for me.

Vaio's are nice to look at and play with, but I haven't had any long term exposure enough to properly rate them.

I am quite prejudiced against Sony Vaios.

We had a period at work of buying Sony Vaios as the standard laptop for everybody. We bought about 6 or 7 them in the space of a couple of months.

All but 2 of them died soon after their warranty expired with a fault on one of their SODIMM sockets. The other two died with screen backlight faults. Our research on the net showed that this was the way most other owner's Vaios died in similar ways too.

Sony wasn't interested, despite this obviously being a design defect. There was talk of class action suit in the US, but I'm not sure what happened to it.

As a result, we don't buy Sony anymore - ever.

LinuxCertified now manufactures laptops, preloads them with Linux (your choice of several distributions), and tests that things actually work. I recently bought their LC2210D (5lb 14' screen model) and am pleased overall. They have a lighter model, the LC2100, which may be worth a look.

http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux-laptop-lc2100.html

Unfortunately it's 1.9kg, which is at the upper end of your range. A 512MB, 40GB, 1.6 Pentium M looks like it'll cost about US$1248 (while there is a Centrino driver on SourceForge, they only preconfigure and support the prism mini-PCI card, which is US$99 extra). Plus shipping, of course. May be worth an e-mail to find out what they can do for you.

My LC2210D seems to get 4-5 hours of battery life, but I don't know if the 2100 uses the same battery. Other than that, most things have "just worked" with Fedora Core 3, which was their "recommended" distribution. I'm now happily latexing and coding away in cafes all over town. This is so much better than Slackware on a 1997 Fujitsu. :)

The only thing that is really disappointing is the support for 802.11 networking -- KWiFiManager is missing a shared library and won't run; the LinuxCertified people suggest using waproamd, but they don't preinstall it. Also, as far as I can tell, only support for WEP, not even WPA1. Still, you can associate with open 802.11 networks fine using iwconfig or the GUI configurator, and the hardware (prism54) appears to support WPA2 if I upgrade the driver. I haven't gotten around to either yet; I only use a few wireless networks and haven't needed it. I don't know if this problem happens with their other supported distributions. The software suspend is also clunky, but this appears to be a problem with all Linux laptops and so is more forgiveable.

Other things - usually quiet except when compiling (it has a daemon
running that understands speedstep), keyboard is OK but not the best I've ever had, trackpad instead of trackpoint (big adjustment for me after a ThinkPad!).

I'd never buy a Toshiba laptop again, having had very bad experiences with the one I bought. So I'd go for the Dell, unless you want to spend a bit more and go for a Thinkpad (eg. http://uk.shopping.com/xPC-IBM_ThinkPad_X41_2525_US2FAUK) again.

As the apple are too heavy (you've right the lighest is 2.1kg), I would suggest going with the Toshiba.

It's been a number of years since I've seen one, but they have always been well built. The tosh we have at work is still running Linux fine and must be 6 to 7 years old now (the battery is dead tho).

My thinkpad was a lemon from the beginning, and my other Windows laptop was little better. When it too broke last September, friends who know much about computers recommended an ibook. It's cheaper, faster, lighter, and far more powerful. I am very happy that I made the change.

I have put the bit about not wanting an Apple in bold now and repeated it at the bottom, since you're not the only one to fail to spot it.

There's also the Toshiba Libretto, but that may actually be too small a form factor - tiny screen.

I've considered one in the past, but they're really too small to be usable - the keyboard isn't practically typeable on.

My last laptop was a Portege R100, which is almost identical to the R200. If you get it, be SURE to buy the next-day on-site service. It's been very, very worth it. (No, that's not a good sign.) I'm exceedingly happy with my new Panasonic toughbook Y2.

I love my Dell dearly, although it's more of a luggable than a portable. However:

- Dell battery life is shite. Uniformly shite. Expect 2-3 hours max.
-

autopope's Toshiba is indeed very shiny.

Let us know how your choice goes - I too am strongly considering buying an ultraportable for work, as the Dell's just too damn heavy.

i've only heard bad things about dell, in terms of defect support and proprietary hardwareness and whatnot, but i've not actually owned one. 3kg+ hpcompaq crew represent.

Of those, I'd say 'Toshiba', and decide between the better battery life and cost of the first vs the weight of the second.

I know this isn't what you want, but if I were buying portable computing and didn't want to 'work' on the plane / train or otherwise away from a power socket, I'd get a Mac Mini and borrow a screen at the destination.

I've edited the post to place more emphasis on my request for no Mac advocacy. I don't suppose even that will work but I have to try.

Out of curiosity, what are your reasons? This post has reminded me that I really really really need to go buy a laptop and have it functional before the end of the month. Leapfrogging from your choices I went to NewEgg and found Toshiba Tecra for less than a grand US, which is quite tempting.

Thing is, many of my friends have macs and do the most amazing things with them, as so much seems to be seamless on those things (dealing with pictures, movies, etc.)

I've /been/ using a Dell Latitude and an ancient IBM, but the Dell's battery power is less than appealing and it won't listen when I tell it not to disable the network card while not on wall power.

Hmm yes, which is why I said for you the choice was between the two Toshibas, but I'd consider...

If it makes you feel better, s/Mac Mini/mini-ITX box/ - same advantages for me - but either way I acknowledge again that it's not what you're after.

Somehow I missed the line about the ibooks being too heavy. Not that it helps for your search right now, but apparently Apple have heard your concerns.

I'm not surprised - now that they're Intel-based, they have a lot more flexibility. As you can see, I did check out what Apple had to offer, since those machines will run Linux just as well and I'm not unmoved by the seductive power of the Mac side, but I need it under 2kg and I need it now.

I also thought I could head off the inevitable advocacy by checking it out myself and explaining why it didn't meet my needs in advance, but I should have known better...

:laugh: I don't need it under 2kg, though I guess I need it in about 2 weeks. So, hm.

Urgh. It's hard for me to make any decisions of late. If my job ends without a new one lined up Britain is a tempting next stop after Guatemala. But I need to renew the passport.

My father has the Toshiba R200. It's sleek, ridiculously light, looks robust and it's preeety! I used to be a bit suspicious on Toshiba's due to their history with laptops and compatibility but things seem to have improved in these last 10 years. So it seems like a good buy. Tell me and I can interrogate my father and provide a more consistent, albeit biased report. Did I mention it is preeety and shiny?

Problems: as far as I can remember, only major problem he had in Linux (I don't think he had any in Windows) was with the LAN and, subconsequently, WLAN. Which is quite a nuisance nowadays. The problem is its 1GB thingie. I think it actually requires compiling the kernel but the drivers are relatively easy to find. Check out, they might already be there in the latest kernel releases. Sound and microphone work almost out of the box, by the way (yeah! skype!).

Oh!, and if you feel like looking at less known brands, my experience with ASUS laptops was very good (and they have oh!, so pretty laptops!) and being less known, slightly cheaper. They used to have little support in Britain but I think that has changed recently.

I was quite sad when I poured water (not coffee) over my M1's keyboard...

(I now have a Vaio... please, enough with the scaring...)

DON'T TELL ME TO BUY A MAC!

I think you need to calculate the number of helium balloons you would need to tie to the lightest Mac to make it 2kg before you can say that for sure ;-)

Add my vote to the past reliability of Toshiba's, but not the batteries they run on.

I have an old ibm thinkpad around here somewhere for spares.. i wonder if it has a compatible screen. will have to hunt it out

Please do - that would rock!

Hmm. the one i have to hand is a 390, so doubt that'd be useful?.. i also have another possibly around...

(deleted comment)

i don't have access to the second one at the moment, (it's around at a friends house). I think the screen maaaay be. Either way you are utterly welcome to it, for spares or repair, etc.

Are either a 12.1" 1024x768 display? If so, possibly very useful!

(Got dimensions wrong in earlier comment - sorry!

(psiu... I have a feeling he poured the coffee on purpose so he could have the excuse to get a new toy... at a subconscious level, of course)

I think I would have been quicker to order one if that was so. I was pretty happy with the ThinkPad TBH - I'd much rather I could get it repaired, still!

Don't buy a Mac, buy a Linux box!

You know it makes sense.

ThinkPad X41.
1.24kg.
12.1" screen.
1.5GHz Pentium M.
512MB RAM.
Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900.
60GB disk.
$1365.

Apparently works fine with Debian (http://www.net-track.ch/opensource/articles/x41.php).

Over here that's £1610 and only offers a 2h30 battery life. I had a ThinkPad before and liked it, and it did work well with Debian, but this doesn't seem to offer any advantage sufficient to justify the extra money.

Well, you didn't say battery life was a consideration, and you didn't say buying from a UK supplier was a requirement.

You could move up to a 1.45kg X41, and get 7-12 hour battery life.

chill out! No criticism of you or your mother was intended; I'm just weighing up the pros and cons of each suggestion.

As it happens the bit where I say battery life is the next most important thing, and the column in the comparative table for battery life, has been there since the first revision of this post, but don't worry about it because I'm always grateful for suggestions.

Buying from a non-UK supplier will result in a big cost saving no matter what I buy (the exchange rate on technical goods is something like £1:$1 or worse) but they make it such a PITA with warranties and import that it's still not worth it. Otherwise everyone would do it...

By the way, who are you and what brings you to my journal? Thanks!

I wasn't taking it as criticism, I just hadn't registered the importance of battery life. I think you spent so much time talking about not wanting an Apple laptop that it obscured the bits that said what you did want. Maybe I needed more coffee.

ThinkPad warranty is worldwide. You have to pay the VAT on the import, but you still save a bundle. I bought a ThinkPad for a friend and shipped it over.

I'm mathew, as you'd find out if you followed the link back to the journal page for this ID. :-) Also, I cheated on the prices somewhat, because I get a hefty employee discount on ThinkPads.

Ah!

Initially the bit about Apples was mentioned only once, without emphasis. I brought that bit forward after the second or third person recommended one despite my giving clear reasons why they weren't suitable. I guess no matter what you do, you can only get people to take in one or two of your criteria at most, and you just have to choose which two matter most. Another time I'll list three criteria in bullet points.

I liked my old ThinkPad a lot, so this is tempting.

Specifically: X41 2527EJU. $1275, 5.7 hr battery life, 1.45kg, 1.6GHz, otherwise much the same.

No, just joking. They don't seem to make ultralight Linux machines. Shame because their other proucts are... No, joking again.

Here are some additional considerations you might want to apply:

Which ones are physically pleasant to hold, look at, etc. without annoying design features, flashing lights etc?

Which ones have a very highly usable keyboard and pointing device?

Which ones are the most portable including the power supply and any bits needed to connect peripherals.

Which ones are pleasant to use on your lap or in bed, in terms of balance, heat dissipation, shape, etc?

Which ones feel like they'd break only after you dropped them on the floor five times?

Does your OS use mm coordinates? If so get the highest resolution screen, else get the one whose native resolution suits your eyes.

Do you use external drives? If so get one with a full-size FireWire socket so you can attach drives up to about 200GB without additional power.

Do you make presentations? If so get one with a real (not proprietary) VGA or DVI socket.

Can you afford UMTS (3G)? If so get one with a PC-card or with high-speed bluetooth (128kbps or better).

Can you be bothered travelling with spare batteries? If so get one where you can replace the battery without plugging in or rebooting.

Do you use Skype or something similar? If so get one with tolerable built-in speakers and (more important) microphone, and make sure it runs quiet to avoid picking up fan noise.

I can't give you any specific advice as I'm still in the last century in terms of computing but if you want advice from a field tech who fixes Dell laptops for a living (my boy in Tennessee), I'd be happy to ask him about that model.

Incidentally, if you do purchase the Latitude, I'm quite likely to be able to get you free and/or massively discounted extras and parts if anything ever breaks.

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Buying a laptop

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If a dell takes your fancy

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To add another to Toshiba

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You should buy a Mac because...

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