ciphergoth | Self-deception

I think I'd prefer to believe that the majority of people were basically decent and good-intentioned, even if it were shown to not be so (though in fact, the evidence bears it out), because believing so, and encouraging other people to believe so, might contribute to change.

Oh - and also, I believe I have free will, even though I suspect I probably don't, because believing (and behaving as though) I don't would be impossible because I would have no sense of the ' autonomous I' that was doing the believing.

Edited 2009-06-23 09:21 (UTC)

Totally. Without "everything will be alright in the end", well, I dunno but it wouldn't be good. I keep believing it even though it is manifestly bollocks in this world.

I think some self-deception is essential in the sense that some things are true but you don't necessarily want to be aware of them all the time. Death being the obvious example.

Like Karen, I choose to believe most people are good FSVO good, even though I don't know if it's true or not. If it was absolutely proved not to be true, I suppose I'd stop believing it, because I don't think I can really believe things I *know* aren't true. But absolute proof seems unlikely so as long as there's wiggle room I'd try to keep believing.

I have a belief that things turn out for the best in the end, but I don't believe it's objectively true as such, it's just something I feel comforted by. But it seems good for my mental health to have that belief.

I think I'm just repeating what other commenters have said, but there's a class of beliefs that could be described as unwarranted optimism, where the action of belief can sometimes alter the truth value, and the cost of believing falsely is lower than the expected payoff of that alteration.

What they all said, really.
I choose to believe that everybody is nice and well-intentioned. This may or may not be true, but I (really, logically) believe that in this case, holding the belief makes it more likely to be true in practice. People's behaviour is affected by my expectations.

I think belief in free will has to be top of the list.

There are other beliefs - mostly, but not only, religious ones - where I could entirely accept intellectually that they were false (and do, in fact, accept that they may be) - but whatever happened, the effect they have on my behaviour would largely persist.

I generally try to believe I'm unlikely to die. It's a Pascal's wager type of thing: if I'm right, I planned things the right way, and if I'm wrong, it probably won't matter too much.

I have to act as if I have free will, so that's a one. And as Katy says I chose not to be aware of certain unpleasant facts 24/7. but I wouldn't want to believe they were false.
I wouldn't want to know if there was literally no point in staying alive, but I don't actually believe that that sort of thing is susceptible to disproof, so that's OK :-)

in my more cynical moments i think that's how Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (in full to avoid the dodgy acronym) works

I don't think self-deception is bad if you are aware that you're doing it, or that there's a strong possibility that that's what you're doing? I think it's bad if it's a deception that happens without your awareness, or is somehow extrapolated from beliefs that are pushed on you as a child, or similar, but if first you have analysed things down into the ground as much as seems to be possible, I don't see anything inherently bad about then building yourself a few beliefs to make the world a better place for yourself/those around you. Though it might depend on what those beliefs are and what you do with them, I guess.

& yes, there are things I believe/believe in that I wouldn't stop believing even if they were proved beyond all doubt to be false, because they are nice things, and they make my world nicer. I know what they are, though, and where the edges are, a bit like deliberately putting a nice painting over a stain on the wall. You know the stain is there, and that you put the painting there to cover it up because you can't do anything about the stain, but that doesn't make it wrong to enjoy looking at the painting.

The free will one is one we've discussed before, and I see many other people have already mentioned it. But that's a bit of a cheat, because I already believe it not to be true.

There are a few things that I tend to act as though they were true, while not really believing them. Karma is one; I don't really believe it, but it provides a handy narrative for me to follow. I could be persuaded that that's wrong-headed thinking, and that it's better to be purely rational on that one, but so far I haven't been.

If it turns out that one particular strand of the human race (blacks, straight people, blue-eyed people) is statistically a genetic liability, I'm not sure I want to know about it. That's possibly more of an ethical question than one of fact, though; I might acknowledge the fact, but take the view that I'm not going to let it affect my decisions.

I do have a category in my mind of "Things I will think about in a bit but not right now." I talk about it as good, healthy denial. If there's something I'm having trouble handling or accepting, the procedure - and I'm fully conscious of this - goes "not happening not happening not happening not happening OMGSCARY ok, that's done now" over some lengthy period of time. It is strictly time limited, and I know it's going to terminate in some reasonable time, but it's a way to get to it when I'm good and ready.

I certainly know of people for whom this is true, specifically for religious beliefs which they have grown up with and devoted a large portion of their life to.

As for myself, I try to keep a distinction between believing things to be true, and acting as if they were. In general I tend to be optimistic about people, plans, etc: not because I actually, seriously believe things will always turn out well, but simply because I find it a more pleasant way to go through life. The positive results of the few long shots which pay off outweigh the negative results of the majority which don't, in the final subjective impression.

I think I'd rather only believe things that are true (and for that reason, I rather hope that the small 1960s study that Ben Goldacre sometimes cites on the placebo effect, which suggested that it might work even without deception, turns out to be right.)

I use self deception as a tool; mainly that I can/will be able to deal with whatever happens in life. Even when I am clearly not dealing *well*, I still cling to thought I can and will be able to eventually.

I don't think it's always bad, but I would always rather have truth, no matter how ugly. This probably contributes to the level and constancy of my depression - I favour harsh truth over comfort at all times, and will not allow myself to believe something just because I would prefer it unless I can satisfy myself that it is indeed true.

I feel very strongly about this. I've never been able to self-deceive, possibly as a function of my autism, and I don't understand how anyone can.

I'd like to believe I was a good person, even if I wasn't. Maybe.

If I was to die within a week, it would not do me good to suddenly discover I was a bad person.

If I was to live for several years still, and I found out I was a bad person, then I could change to be a good person before I died. And I could make amends for some of the bad things I must have done. But I would still have to live with the horror of having been a bad person.

Yes.

To me beliefs don't necessarily need have to have solid reasoned arguments about why they're true. They're subjective, can often be about feelings, instincts or hunches, and they're your own matter. As long as your beliefs don't upset, bother or ruin the world for anyone else I'm ok with them. It doesn't mean I want to hear about them though - take note Brixton preachers!

The main counterexample I was going to mention is one about confidence. Many people struggle with self confidence. (Even quite successful people do).

The trick to self confidence is to pretend that you have it. Eventually this self deception will turn out to become real confidence.

(This is related to artemis' comments about CBT I suppose)

> Are there any beliefs so dear to you that, in a world where they weren't true, you would prefer to go on believing them?

I used to belive that white lies were always bad. Now I am more flexible.

As for beliefs.... I am fairly skeptical anyway and dont really have many beliefs - just working assumptions.

I believe that I am a good person.

A lot of people would say that some of my beliefs were not true, and I would say that about a lot of other people's beliefs. So in a way we all live in a world where some of our beliefs aren't true.

If the world changed in a way that had important implications for any of my important beliefs, I'd want to know about it.

I would rather know the truth about something than kid myself it was ok when it wasn't. I don't think I could make the most effective plans on the latter basis.

Self-deception is always bad! Always I say!! Dammit!!!*

*Even if this isn't true I prefer to treat it as true for myself as it keeps me honest to myself and others...

An interesting and stimulating topic that could go in so many directions...
The first thing that came into my head was 'personal concept of reality' - where someone's viewpoint of s situation is different from one's own.
Not sure where I first heard the phrase though?

Sorry for the late response. I do think that, generally, I'd rather know the truth. There might be an exception with some personal things. For instance, if most people actually think I'm horrifically unattractive I'd rather now know!

Something I just read reminded me of this post, and it occurred to me that you never shared your answer to your own question. Can I ask what your view is?

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